Curse

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 08, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

I'm gonna test this one out when I get the elite, but I'm wondering just how dangerous it can be in a heated fight...

W/Mo HOLY BULL SHYTE!!!

12+1+3 Hammer Mastery
8+1 Strength
10 Smiting

Mighty Blow
Hammer Bash
Crushing Blow
Irresistable Blow
Bull's Charge {E}
Holy Strike
Smite Hex
Res Sig/Strength of Honor/Judge's Insight

This is feeding off the thought that in the meta-game atmosphere, people with a brain will RUN from a hammer warrior. The fact that he's usually unblockable and keeps you on your ass for 3s. at a time is one thing, but this build capitalizes on the fact that running = BAD.

So what if they choose to stand still? Ok, so then they get hit with the somewhat shorter knockdown that is Mighty Blow, Bash, Holy Strike, Crushing Blow, Irresistable Blow. Wow, not too shabby.

Since Hammer Warrior's should ideally be chasing people, keeping them on their arse is probably the best way to do things...

Holy Strike got beefed, that's hot, and Smite Hex does 60 AoE armor ignoring damage. In the midst of a fight, where you should be as a warrior, that can be 180 dmg for 5e... Very nice...

derrtyboy69 · Oct 08, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

can use with axe for some great dps

pagansaint · Oct 08, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

But that defeats his purpose.

The knockdowns from Hammer and Bull's Charge are great at taking someone and making them stay still.

Another good way to use this is to get the target snared, then hit them with an AoE like meteor shower/maelstrom/chaos storm and use bull's charge to keep them in it

smurfhunter · Oct 09, 2005, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

But that defeats his purpose.

The knockdowns from Hammer and Bull's Charge are great at taking someone and making them stay still.

Another good way to use this is to get the target snared, then hit them with an AoE like meteor shower/maelstrom/chaos storm and use bull's charge to keep them in it

but.... hammer can knock down well without bulls charge >.<

i think that hes right, axes would do better with it since they have like no knockdowns besides bulls strike or something. and the sustained damage can cause almost anyone to start kiting, meaning you will actually provoke them into running (letting you use bulls charge).

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 09, 2005, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Go out and ask what monks will do when they see this...

An Axe warrior running at them.

A Hammer Warrior running at them.

I've asked a quite a lot of them in pvp and in a party and they pretty much gave me a unanimous vote...

Guess which warrior they NEVER want to be standing next to...

Red Locust · Oct 09, 2005, 07:07 AM // 07:07

They'll just run backwards and sideways and ignore bull's strike/charge.

pagansaint · Oct 09, 2005, 08:06 AM // 08:06

LoL so its EASIER to get a knockdown? No. They will either stand and try to tank the damage/knockdowns or try to run. Either way they will be knocked down with a hammer warrior. But ONLY if they run as an axe/sword warrior.

rii · Oct 09, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Protectors Strike

Pharalon · Oct 09, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

If you manage to get a knockdown with bull''s charge on someone who's kiting, they are most likely awful. If they're kiting properly, you'll never get a knockdown, and you're effectively running an elite version of sprint, except that you can't use any attack skills, so it's actually a lot worse. Spint + any elite damage attack will do a better job.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 09, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Firstly, you can't RUN from a Bull's Charge. You're sprinting...

If the monk is kiting you, you've taken them out of the fight. When they stop to heal, that's when Hammer Bash, Holy Strike, IB lands... At 16 hammer, that's not weak...

You can't kite him unless you've got a very high speed buff. [damn 33%'ers] however, if your team is listening, they'll snare him giving you a good chance at KD.

The fact that you're at 125% movement speed should guaruntee knockdowns. Stand still, lose 60% hp, run, and get KD a lot. I don't see the problem.

rii · Oct 09, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

You cant use those skills without ending the charge.... so a monk could just take one on the chest, and continue as normal for the next 15s til the recharge.

NightOwl · Oct 09, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

Go out and ask what monks will do when they see this...

An Axe warrior running at them.

A Hammer Warrior running at them.

I've asked a quite a lot of them in pvp and in a party and they pretty much gave me a unanimous vote...

Guess which warrior they NEVER want to be standing next to...

Honestly...I'd rather have a hammer warrior on me, if it's just a case of 1 warrior attacking me.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 09, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by rii

You cant use those skills without ending the charge.... so a monk could just take one on the chest, and continue as normal for the next 15s til the recharge.

I know there's counters to this build but what if the monk DOESN'T know what you're doing?

Bah, seems we're all just modified damage after all... Sad really, seems as though no amount of intelligence can help no matter how hard one tries...

I guess we may as well reduce the game's skill count to 75 each instead of 150, I mean, after all, more than half the skills obviously suck right?

entropy · Oct 09, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Yes sad as it is 1/2 of the skills do suck.

Pharalon · Oct 09, 2005, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

The fact that you're at 125% movement speed should guaruntee knockdowns. Stand still, lose 60% hp, run, and get KD a lot. I don't see the problem.

The problem is you don't get knockdowns will Bull's Charge against good monks. Against a good kiter, you have the option of using a knockdown skill and loosing you speed buff, which will let him kite a lot more easily, or just chasing him around with poor DPS (as you can't use any attack skills). If somone is exposing their back to you when kiting, you're much better off not knocking them down and just landing crit after crit with your big damage skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki

I know there's counters to this build but what if the monk DOESN'T know what you're doing?

The problem is they don't need to know what you're doing, as good kiting is a natural counter to Bull's Charge. That's why sprint is always a better option. Maybe if they modified the skill to work like Protector's Strike it would be viable, but as is, it's dead weight on your skillbar.

telarin · Oct 09, 2005, 11:53 PM // 23:53

When i PVP with my monk, i like warriors pounding on me no matter what weapons they use. I dont run away, they are good for my well being :P However things that do kill me are interrupters disabling all my spells.

Yukito Kunisaki · Oct 10, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Damn, must be fighting some warriors with no battle system at all...

In any case, running is part of the game. Nobody plays by standing still the whole time. It's called dynamics.

Being down for 3s. and then having to heal yourself when you stand up would be about 5s. How fast can a teammate die in 5s.? Don't know, ask your enemy teammates what they're doing to your friend ^_^

I've seen people drop sudden deaths in barely 7s. of game time... [Frag Mes gah*]

If this guy can take you out of the fight for 5s. +, that's more than enough for someone with a system to kill with...

Red Locust · Oct 10, 2005, 07:43 AM // 07:43

You're missing the point. The fact is that you won't even get a knockdown unless the monk turned face and ran with his back towards you, which is a very bad thing to do since it triggers critical hits. The right way of kiting when you have a warrior on you is to strafe, which will prevent criticals and render your bulls charge useless.

So what you have there is an elite version of sprint that cancels as soon as you use a skill. A substitute for eviscerate or devastating hammer? Those two perform equally good regardless of the opposition; bull's charge only works on amateur monks.